Michael Musto, a very gay man, had this to say in The Village Voice recently about those perfidious, untrustworthy bisexuals:
Everyone always says they’re bisexual, blabbing on and on about how “sexuality is fluid, and I don’t really like labels”–but usually I find these are just gay men who are afraid to come out. I know there are real bisexuals out there–mainly because I’ve heard that there are–and I do think it’s a lovely idea to actually crave sex with people regardless of gender. I’m just wondering how real a phenomenon this is, as opposed to a smoke-and-mirrors coverup designed to keep antsy gays in the closet.
‘Most of the guys I know who say they’re bisexual end up doing Bette Davis impersonations after a few drinks, and when you invite them to an all-girl bar, they get excited, thinking you mean Splash. But do you know anyone who REALLY is equally attracted to both men and women and effortlessly glides between those two dating pools without a second’s thought or self-consciousness? If so, do you ever suspect they’re full of shit?
Musto was perhaps being deliberately crass, but he should probably be thanked for voicing what many gay men think about bisexual men (and note that he starts talking about ‘bisexuality’ but it quickly becomes clear that, like me, he’s only interested in bisexual men).
Stripped down and lubed up, here’s what Musto was really saying about those flakey bi guys:
- They’re lying
- They really want to be Michael Musto
- Real bisexuality is about ‘craving’ men and women because bisexuals are greedy
- If they’re not greedy and equally attracted to both men and women – and of course Musto gets to decide whether they are or not – then we’re back to where we came in – 1.
Funny how many gay men appear to want to exterminate male bisexuality as a category even though they often find the idea of bisexual men a big turn on. Each man kills the thing he loves….
Of course, for some men declaring themselves ‘bi’ is a way of edging out of heterosexuality into full-time all-singing, all-dancing homosexuality and evenings out with Michael Musto. But that’s not why gay men are often so hostile to male bisexuality. The real reason is that, like most straight people, they want every man who touches another man’s pee-pee to have to join the gay team. They want to own mansex. And they want all those who have mansex to be just like them.
Sorry, but I’m going to quote myself again, this time from three years ago when the NYT ran a much worse article than Musto’s musings called ‘Gay, Straight Or Lying?’:
Fear and loathing of male bisexuality is something that tends to bring heterosexuals and homosexuals together. Instead of pondering the possibility that public attitudes towards male bisexuality are a truer, less censored indication of what many people actually feel about male homosexuality in general and its enforced incompatibility with masculinity, gay men too often rush to condemn bisexual men and reassure heterosexuals: Don’t worry! You’re not being homophobic when mouthing off about bisexual men! Coz we hate them too!!
BTW Mark someone else linked your blog entry here to the queerty article about UK singer Mika I linked to.
I know this is an old blog entry but I saw the same issues that Mark Simpson is writing about with bisexuality mirrored with biphobic gay men and lesbians here:
Hense underneath the facade of “control” or “dominance” or “top” lurks the underdevoloped persona of submissive, vulnerable, and bottom. So the answer is:
Yes I will sit on your cock and you can suck my cock but can I bring my therapist along?
The top/bottom dichotomy is really one of the more fruitful ways of analyzing “gender” and “sex”. That is if we looked at top and bottom not as a person but as a paradoxical behavior pattern within person(s).
Outer top behavior tends to have an “inner” bottom. And of course the binary falls apart especially if a person integrates a supposed “split”.
This may illustrate:
I dated a woman ten years ago, who wanted me to slap her while I was fucking her. Mainly in the face, but slapping her anywhere was sure to get her very excited. And I really got into it and got very excited. It was nice to have a woman into rough play. This went on for months. Then one day in the heat of the moment:
POW! She slapped me.
I stopped sex, walked out of the room. Apologized and eventually asked her to leave. And when she left felt very vulnerable in a way that I could not share with anyone. (Sadley this incident pretty much ended are sexual encounters.)
I was not prepared for it and it took me way off guard and struck some very deep emotional place. But now I have a lot of therapy under my belt – and I can go there – but I do need help letting go of control.
Mark S. I can become a switch butt it will take some work for me to get over it. Perhaps I will buy a strap on for my girlfriend first and get over it and then buy a ticket to the UK.
As far as sucking my bosses cock. It was independent contractor work. He was a plumber and he just needed some temporary assisance with his pipe.
I really need some sort of kink therapist so I can be a bottom someday.
It’s not actually the pussy that is the problem.
“It’s the women they tend to be attached to.”
Yes I think that hetero sex is really truly a form
of masochism. O.K. I will definately buy a strap on for my girl friend and hand cuffs.
Matthew: I’ll suck your tackle. If you sit on my (pre-op) pussy. I promise you my room-mate won’t walk in.
Perhaps Dan Savage was right, in a way. Perhaps gay agony aunts should only have sex with other gay agony aunts.
I’ve eaten pussy. And not only did I live to tell the tale. I quite liked it. But I don’t think that really makes me bisexual.
I must be a faux top because I always blow unless they cum while I am topping. and have only been topped once and unfortunately his boyfriend walked in on us.
So you know I am 6′ 3″ and was star football player and captain defensive and offensive tackle. I kind of make a natural top. A gentle giant if you will. And I pranced to Erasure.
Come to think of it, it actually took me a few years of receiving blowjobs from feme guys until I gave blowjobs. I was more emotionally shutdown in my early twenties.
It changed when my boss who was “straight” wanted to have his first experience with me. I felt I had to initiate him. For a while I became the
third partner with him and his wife. Until he was having more sex with him, than I was with her or both of them. Which eventually pissed her off.
But that’s when I started sucking cock and liking it. It just took a straight guy.
On that note Foucault talks a great deal about “Why can’t we have a science of Pleasure.” And how do we emanicipate Bodies and Pleasure. Instead in this realm we have a science of “sexual orientation.” Where the grand inquisitor scientist seeks to sadistically penetrate the subjective experience of the self. A science of pleasure leads to much more interesting questions and lines of thinking. Today with “straight” and “gay” whole populations exclude themselves from various possibilities of pleasure. Or from discovering completely new pleasures. Can a completely “straight” man enjoy GAY HOMOSEXUAL SEX? Of course. Just as a gay man could probably enjoy a vagina. Regardless of what one’s preference is. But we really don’t even seek to expand our Repertoire of pleasure. We instead create broad restrictions on what is legitimate pleasure and what is not. The fact that Gay politics has decided to become so straight really needs to be analysed and called out for all its implications. I have no idea what my “nature” is. I just love having different types of sex. And also don’t feel anyone should have the authority to dictate how and who I love. Nor do I wish to ever sacrifice that authority. But it seems that Gay men are eagerly seeking to sacrifice their own authority.
Also Dan Savage is a moron. Never underestimate the anti-intellectualism in America. Here Gay Queer theorists will constantly quote Foucault and then rigidly maintain the gay gene essentialist theory. It is beyond annoying when Foucault’s main points are about what passes as “truth”, and that we don’t know what our “nature” is. I am not a hardcore post-structuralist in fact as for as theory on sex and gender I am more informed by Freud, Jung and Deleuze (which by the way makes me very unpopular in academic circles.) But the fact that people would even take Dan Savage as an authority on sex points to just how ignorant and uneducated Americans are.
Really the vaste majority of bi men and women end up in “straight” or “gay” monogomous relationships. And become completely invisible.
I have had disastorously “straight” and “gay” relationships where even my appreciation or affection for the other gender was met with great suspicion.
The real myth of bisexuals is that they must have both genders. When in a sexually and emotionally satisfying relationship I hardly think of “the other gender” as sexual partners, perhaps as a passing fantasy or appreciation. The men who end up on the down low are either bisexual men who have never explored sex with other men in their youth or are actually gay.
Before I met my current girlfriend I was open to dating straight women and gay men. But it is a profound relief to be with another bisexual person and receive this degree of acceptance. Where we can freely talk about attractions, entertain options of an open relation or decide to be monogomous if we choose.
Dan Savage once wrote “bi people should just date each other.” which is of course a bit fascist. However it really has been the bisexual women that have made the greatest partners.
Yes but for real he is practically a Kinsey 6. I really wasn’t trying to get him to sleep with my girlfriend. But found it funny that he brought it up. As for as my girlfriend is concerned she is just as disappointed as I am:
“Part of me liked the fact that you had K. – that I wouldn’t have to be everything to you and I wouldn’t be asked for more than what I could give. So it scares me just a teensy bit that you are breaking up with him.”
She has a lower sex drive than I do. So she has been encouraging me. I just need to reassure her that I still love her even if I don’t have a boyfriend. : )
As far as K is concerned he is ten years younger and very scared that someone loves him and that he feels love. And the non-monogomy scares him too.
I do want to thank all the transexuals out there that dated my fuck buddies. You have helped me tremendously. And I love you.
Yes we really had have this arguement. I can’t transcribe all the details because I am now drunk. But it is the sad end of a good fuck buddy. And our arguement seems important to post to this blog. I told him to call me if he changed his mind – and you know he will – it is just a matter of time. Yes I admit I was trying to suck him into my poly fantasy – but what ever. He did eventually admit that he was a Kinsey 5 for eating trans pussy.
O.K. I didn’t fuck him tonight. I tried briefly to seduce him, but thought it unwise. He is ten years younger than I am and he is a bit scared of the intimacy – he is too “in love” to continue. Whatever that means. So I am now drunk because I went out with a friend to talk about the pathetic situation. But my ex-boyfriend did say some interesting things on our break up date:
K – Your using me.
M – I thought you enjoyed the time we spent together.
K – well yeah, but your trying to suck me into some poly fantasy of yours and I get the short end of the stick.
M – how?
K – well I could never have sex with your girlfriend.
M – you don’t have to but if you want I can show you how.
K – I am a Kinsey 6! It’s not going to happen.
M – Bullshit! Your roomate told me you had a relationship with a trans female.
K – well that doesn’t count.
M – of course it counts. You ate her pussy.
K – it wasn’t real pussy. That pussy was once a penis.
M – Trans pussy IS pussy!
K – I don’t have to hear this.
M – did you like it?
K – like what?
M – eating trans pussy!
K – I don’t know I guess. Why are you asking me this.
M – because you keep going on and on as to how YOU are Kinsey 6 queen when in reality you are a Trans-pussy eating bisexual!
Once again unfortunately I am too square to actually cheat on my girlfriend. We have agreed to communicate when and if we want another relationship outside our relationship. She calls herself “a cuddle whore” because she really just loves boobs and wants a woman to cuddle with from time to time – which is sure to piss any hard core Lesbian off. Her last lover was a male to female transexual who dumped her for another tranny (the BITCH!). But I am grateful that fate has worked in our favor.
Yes I know it probably sounds BORING but we are working on our own relationship now and will likely be monogomous for a while.
I am equally fascinated. The counselor described his life of being on “a reverse downlow” where he could not tell his gay friends that he was sleeping with women. So he until recent years dropped the label bisexual and just told gay men “have it your way, I am gay.” This is actually more pressure than I experienced I have had to argue with straight men and women that I am bisexual and not straight, but eventually they come around after enough discussions. But I also have heard twice from straight women “if you don’t like anal sex that proves your not gay.” or some absurdity like that. And I once told a straight therapist “I just want to live an authentic life.” his response was “well don’t you have to have sex with both men and women to do that?” (which I am glad is covered in the Bisexual cartoon.)
I let you know what happens. It seems that I am probably breaking up with my boyfriend tonight. He told me that he is falling in love with me and wants a monogomous relationship. I know I am a dangerous person for a feme gay man to get involved with because of my interest in intimacy as well as sex. I love him and told him so. I will probably not seek out another man for a while. My woman’s lover also stopped calling her. Are we now a straight couple? I am considering buying a male and female inflatable dolls for the bedroom so we can at least have the constant feeling that we are bisexual.
I did finally talk to one of the bisexual male counselors and proposed creating the first bisexual men’s support group. Yes I get creating another sexual identity community has it’s issues but I think this may help. The counselor is a bi Latino man who is in a ten year relationship with a man but also dates women and is in the gay community. I am in the opposite position with most of my primary relationships with women including my current girlfriend. I think we can bring together a lot of guys from both sides of this imaginary orientation line. The group is not political in nature just support no matter how someone identifies or current relationship. I have been in both “straight” and “gay” men’s groups before and of course a percentage of the men in these groups end up speaking about their bisexuality that they before have not acknowledged. I would also like to “smash” the absurdity of orientation politics but I also want to create safe places for bisexual men to go where they won’t be harassed. They don’t need to be out, just interested in support.
This initiative is coming from the reality that when I was wanting a counselor after my last breakup that I was seeking support for bisexual issues – and good luck finding someone – straight therapist don’t get it at all, I did find a good gay therapist who was sympathetic of the discrimination issues. But i believe it is important for bisexual men to have others to mirror their experience. I have had moments of this, even moments of community, But last year I felt like the LAST BISEXUAL. So have been slowly finding others again after years of not having any other bi male friends.
I think you might be right about the community thing. All of my friends are perfectly fine with me and the way I live my life. But my friends are mostly straight guys, it would be nice to meet other guys like myself – primarily for friendship. My friends are great I can tell them anything sexual details everything – but they also don’t get It either.
Slowly but surely a bisexual community will come together. Sadly in Chicago it has not and have only a few times in my life experience a bi community. One time was meeting Susie Bright and her boyfriend and that scene which was affirming of all orientations. Another time was in a theater for 5 years where I felt in the majority for once in my life. But inbetween those times it is rare. But for real bisexuals need at least to reclaim there lives from gay and straight essentialism.
I just needed to add based on the comments ALL of my lovers male and female I want sexual, emotional, and romantic intimacy. This sterotype that bi men will not kiss is absurd. I frankly have been with gay men who have severe intimacy problems who will refuse even a hug! So don’t project that crap that all bi men just want a blow job.
I am a bisexual male and 39 and out. What Musto does not get is most of the bisexual men who do have a preference for women are NOT in the gay community. They are in the straight world. Some are closeted. Others have a circle of friends that support them. Most of my friends are straight guys and biwomen. More recently I have been meeting bi men who are in the gay community and I am shocked to find out that the prejudice is often worse than in the straight world. One of these guys has only had sex with men but I don’t doubt his stated sexual preference. I often wish I were not out. Because being a bisexual male is the perfect way to sabotage your dating life. Many straight women want their men to be 100% straight. And then complain that the guys they meet are jerks and asses. Many gay men demand 100% gayness. I have generally concluded to just mainly date other bisexuals. I am now in a relationship with a bi woman and I also have a gay lover. Previously I dated only monogomously but my woman actually encourged me to seek out another partner. In my last relationship with a straight woman we were monogomous and committed everything seemed fine but my bisexuality to her was a big deal. This is a very difficult life to live where it is publically acceptable to discriminate against bisexuals in both the gay and straight world. HENSE I have found no other option but to become an activist. But shit! Look what I have to battle. The worst forms of publically authorized biggotry that is not even seen as biggotry!
Sisu: Definitely. In one of your your previous comments you mentioned you are Australian. Is that true?
Kissing is a sign of emotional clinginess anyways.
The gay guys will kiss me… but no chocolates though.
Kisses and chocolates are probably two things not to expect in a steam room.
Well … I do , but I probably shouldn’t expect too much more from steam room sex.
If they will suck your cock for an hour, who cares?
The cock obsession of Bi men is a real one. But I do wonder why Bi men will gladly suck your cock for an hour but if you try and kiss them they get all offended and shit.
The last time I encountered switches was at a Russian bath-house in Tallin. I think they were made from birch.
A lot of gay bottoms are very, very particular on their profiles that someone has to be ‘100% top’ to have a chance of getting anywhere near their precious chocolate starfish. ‘If you have “versatile” on your profile, don’t waste my time! I’m looking for a REAL man!!’
Aren’t we all?
Dave: The thing I’ve found with straight men is that most of them are very interested in cocks. Straight porn has lots of them. Gay porn, by contrast, never ever does vaginas.
How very dare you!
That might be the case if I stuck to straight men (who do, by the way, make the best bottoms), but I’m greedy and fancy a lot of gay men too.
Where I live though there are many, many more straight/bi-curious and bisexual blokes than there are gays. Though probably that’s the case wherever one lives….
I have been sexual with male peers and friends who wound up being heterosexual but this happened a very very long time ago.
I’ve had heterosexual men flirt or make sexual advances to me but that’s as far as it went.
What’s even more disturbing is that many gay men like TeddyPig and others want to completely rewrite history and claim that bisexual people have never been at the forefront of fighting for gay liberation/GLBT liberation or rights.
Here’s the original post I made on his blog that he did not like and refused to publish as a comment on his blog.
Yes I know it’s like getting blood from a stone but I enjoy rhetoric and playing Devil’s advocate and perhaps I’m a not so secret masochist at times. 😉
Of course male bisexuality exists and no it is not somehow rare or impossible for a man to be truly bisexual. Oscar Wilde was bisexual and so was Robert Mapplethorpe.
Yes it is quite possible and common for men to be romantically and emotionally bisexual, however just because a man that’s bisexual can fall in love with men that does not make him gay even if you wish that he was.
A person is still bisexual and a “true” bisexual even if they are just sexually attracted to one gender and fall in love with the other one.
To think otherwise is just as hypocritical, ignorant, and bigoted as Conservative politicians and the “ex gay” people like to think about gay men as a whole, and everyone that’s GLBT.
If a guy is actually heterosexual and really straight he’s not going to have sex with men even when he’s horny and drunk.
Do you know any actual hetero guys? Ask them what they think about having sex with men or see if they’d have sex with a guy while drunk. Don’t be surprised if they get mad at you or think you’re a complete idiot for suggesting this to them.
Here are some factual verified lists of men who actually are bisexual, don’t be surprised if you see some familiar names there.
In the history of gay/bisexual men or the homophile movement AKA gay/GLBT liberation there was the Mattachine Society which also had bisexual men as founding members. The Mattachine
Society and another early gay rights group the society for human rights tried being polite and educating people about homosexuality/bisexuality. These conservative gay/bisexual male liberation groups did not work but Stonewall did.
The Stonewall riots were started by a bisexual Trans woman named Sylvia Rivera.
Yes she was actually at Stonewall. Trans people can be bisexual too like she was.
Columbia University’s Student Homophile League, was established by Stephen Donaldson AKA Donny the Punk, an openly bisexual student, in 1966.
In the late 60s before and after Stonewall the term Gay was used for gay men and bisexuals and anyone else who was not heterosexual.
Brenda Howard an out bisexual woman started Gay/GLBT pride to celebrate Stonewall that started in NYC and around the world.
Cliff Arnesen a bisexual soldier was kicked out of the U.S. military in the 60s because he was bisexual and he has appeared before Congress as a bisexual person who was kicked out of the military because of his non-heterosexuality. This happened decades before Lt. Dan Choi.
If you heard of the Catacombs club in SF in the late 70s/early 80s Steve McEachern the founder of it was bisexual both sexually and romantically-he fell in love with both men and women, and his lover was Cynthia Slater was bisexual too. Oh my bad, I’m sure you’ll just think of her as being a Dyke.
The author formerly known as Pat, now Patrick Califia is a bisexual both sexually and emotionally/romantically. Then again I’m sure you still think of Patrick as still being identified as a dyke and a woman and that he’s not a man at all.
Nayland Blake is bisexual and he used to identify as a gay man. He’s now partnered to a woman and has sex and romance with both men and women.
Both Joseph Bean and Jack Rinella who have been a part of the leather community for a very long time are both bisexual and have sexual attractions to both men and women and they happen to be able to have romantic attractions to women too.
Joseph Bean wrote about his sexual and emotional/romantic bisexuality in the book Leathersex Q and A where he wrote about having sex with women and falling in love with women as well as having sex with men and having a romantic/emotional attraction towards men too.
David Louera who died of AIDS was bisexual. David Louera was sexually and emotionally attracted to men and women.
Login to Fetlife.com, and see what Jack Rinella lists his sexual orientation as. He has frequently written about how he’s bisexual and falls in into emotional relationships as well as sexual ones with men and women. Or is that not “bisexual enough” for you since he used to identify as a gay man before he came out as bisexual?
If you know of the bear author/writer Ron Jackson Suresha who wrote the book Bears on bears, he once identified as a gay man but he discovered that he is actually bisexual and came out as a bisexual man. Or have you been living under a rock for the past 6 years?
Writers Doug Harrison and his partner Bill Brent are both bisexual men and have never identified as gay.
I do not care if you don’t believe me that these men are bisexual. They’re out as bisexual and dare to exist even if you don’t believe them when they say that they’re bisexual and you only want to think of them as being gay.
What gay men, lesbians, and straights are doing when they say how these men are really gay and not bisexual at all is erasing their sexuality and it just shows how little you know about these bisexual men.
Many of them went on to write personal essays and memoirs about how they are bisexual men.
Many gay men want to rewrite history when it comes to bisexuality and when someone who was formerly identified as gay comes out as bisexual.
Biphobic gay men should stop invalidating the personal sexuality of these men that is not that of gay/homosexual despite how much you wish that they really were gay.
The whole bisexual revolution started in the mid-late 60s and early 70s. There have always been out bisexuals throughout history just look at Hadrian and British writers such as D.H. Lawrence and Virginia Woolf.
There’s a tendency for gay men who have their own agendas of spreading misinformation and re-writing the history of the GLBT community and they want to claim that bisexuals have never been socially or politically linked to gay men and lesbians or accepted by gay men and
If you are really bisexual and a man if you come out some people, are just going to tell you that you don’t exist and that you’re really going to eventually come out as being a gay man but it does not work this way.
Gay men and lesbians can sometimes be more bigoted towards bi’s than straight people are towards bisexuals.
I have had Kinsey 6 gay men tell me how yes there are some gay men out there who feel as though it is their privilege and right to demand equality and sexual freedom for everyone yet treat bisexuals like shit.
This is not bigotry or hatred to say this or to say how there is a lot of biphobia in the GLBT community and among gay men, of course you are an example of this. It is not some sort of conspiracy theory or political thing either.
In my decades an out bisexual man I have had nothing but acceptance, respect, and
understanding as a bisexual man from most gay men and lesbians who I have met and who I’m friends with.
This does not mean that there are not gay men and even lesbians out there, and even straight people who do not understand bisexuality.
Bisexuals do not have a heterosexual privilege. This is a biphobic myth.
I know gay men who stayed closeted for decades and married women, had kids, and they would say how they had heterosexual privilege and would brag about how they were in a celibate and sexless marriage yet their boss, kids, and everyone else thought they were “straight” because they were married to a woman.
Those men who you wrote about who were married to women and had children with them and then eventually came out as gay men, those are NOT bisexual men, and they never have been bisexual at all. They are gay men who wanted Heterosexual privilege and who knew they were gay and stayed closeted and got married to a woman anyway, and they just wanted to appear for all intents and purposes “straight” even though they’re gay men and always will be.
There are tons of Lesbians who were married or partnered to men in the past when they were closeted and not out.
Both of these gay men and lesbians who stayed closeted and got married to the opposite sex have had heterosexual privilege.
When Ted Haggard comes out as a gay man you should welcome him into your fold since you both have a lot in common.
There is such an orientation as bisexual and from what I gather in my own experience with people, being bisexual is more difficult than being gay in many ways.
Just because there are gay men who have mislabeled themselves as bisexual and they were afraid to come out as gay and stayed closeted, doesn’t mean real bisexuals like myself should have to put up with their ignorance.
Look at the comments which come whenever there is a thread on bisexuality on various sites.
The ignorance from some gay men, lesbians, as well as straight folk, regarding the topic of bisexuality is staggering.
People rarely acknowledge the existence of bisexuality properly it’s either experimentation by future gay men of America or girls trying to make a straight guy hot, bi folk are told
“not welcome here” by straight and gay people, it’s assumed that bisexual people do not marry/partner date or have relationships with people of the same sex at all, and when bi folk happen to marry or commit to someone of the opposite sex, it’s just assumed life is hunky dory and that the bisexual man or woman somehow becomes straight.
MOST people who identify as Bisexual do so because they ARE Bisexual.
Unfortunately after a while MANY people who ARE Bisexual give up and grudgingly identify as Lesbian, Gay or whatever because they get so tired of the endless whining of the PC Identity-police in the LGBT community. SOME people say they are Bisexual when they are first coming out because they are genuinely confused by the entire experience. A FEW people say
they are Bisexual when they are first coming out because they are nervous and think it “sounds better”.
There are also self-described gay men who are actually bisexual but don’t want to admit it.
There are also self-described straight men who are bisexual but don’t want to admit it. It cuts both ways.
People tell bi’s they don’t exist; they tell them it’s ok to question their sexuality; people tell bisexuals it’s a phase of experimentation or transition; people accuse them of heterosexual privilege; people don’t want to date them and the whole idea of it makes a lot of people uncomfortable.
In fact, I would say that that there is a greater social stigma attached to a man declaring himself bisexual than gay.
Using your logic coupled with my own experience I shouldn’t trust people when they tell me they are gay or lesbian. Why? Because I have met MANY people who identified as gay or lesbian for periods of their lives and then realized they were bisexual.
Sexuality is a continuum and human experience doesn’t all fit into little boxes for your pleasure.
I simply don’t understand why you spend so much time doubting a whole sexual orientation.
Let it be, people who are bisexual men like myself know that we are bisexual and even if you or other people like Dan Savage claim that male bisexuality does not exist or that it’s somehow rare that does not reflect reality and the fact that male bisexuality does exist and
that it is not rare.
In Dan Savage’s mind, “many”, “most” and “a lot of” bisexual men are liars and are really gay. Hmmm… sounds like stereotyping and generalizations to me. He’s stuck in the 40’s. As are some gay men when it comes to bisexuality. They don’t get it, they can’t conceive of it.
Dan Savage is not an expert on sexuality.
He’s just an ex drag queen who started an advice column in a newspaper.
Savage seems to have a very hard time thinking outside the box when it comes to sexuality that’s not monosexual-straight or gay/lesbian, or a gender that’s not man or woman.
He’s a media whore and even my gay male friends who are from Seattle do not like him since they think he’s a condescending asshole that gives out misinformation and untrue “advice” masquerading as truthful facts about male bisexuality and Trans issues.
Dan Savage is one of a very small group of LGBT people who still makes a living off of straight people people by playing an offensive caricature of the old self-hating snap-queen stereotype from back in the day.
Get over it Dan the “The Boys in the Band” came out in 1968. Get off the stage, your time is over.
It is absolutely disrespectful to question a bisexual’s sexual orientation because you don’t understand bisexuality. Much the same way as gay men get fed up with being told they haven’t found the right woman and lesbians get told they haven’t found the right man and that deep
down inside you both somehow really want sex or a relationship with the opposite gender when this is not true at all.
Savage also fell into the trap that bisexuals don’t “get” discrimination because they can get married to the opposite sex. The old “bi privilege” argument. Sure, maybe bisexuals can
legally marry members of the opposite sex, but that doesn’t make them straight (how many times must I repeat that?!?), and it certainly doesn’t mean they had an easy time finding a partner willing to deal with their bisexuality! Just because a bisexual man partners with or marries a man that does not make him gay either.
Many bisexuals-even bisexual men do marry and partner with men and they do not get any sort of privileges.
There are bisexual men who have been bashed/beat up and even killed for being bisexual, bisexual men in the military who have been kicked out because of DADT (don’t ask don’t tell), and bisexual men who were fired from their jobs because of their sexuality.
As a bisexual man it’s not like you only get half of a bashing, half of a military
discharge, and when you get fired from your job because of your non-heterosexuality that you’re told you only have to go into work 3 days a week part time and you still get paid and get benefits.
All of those Male/Female and Male/Male couples you see I guarantee you that some of the men involved in those relationships are bisexual but they are only going to be assumed to be straight or gay because of the gender of their partner.
I know two bisexual men who are partnered together and have been for decades.
They tell gay men that they are gay, because they have had too many gay men tell them how it’s impossible for men to be bisexual or that it’s somehow rare in men, but they are out as bisexual to straight people, their friends/family-even GLBT friends and GLBT “family”.
Maybe generalizations and stereotypes are good enough for you, but for a supposed sexuality expert, I find Savage’s ideas about bisexuality to be wanting and completely wrong.
As for the joke of a study by Dr. J. Michael Bailey that was a complete fail. They used a small group of people and made them watch porn and came to their conclusions this way.
Not everyone gets turned on by porn. I do not get turned on at all by the blonde hairless twinks you see in most gay porn and I don’t get turned on by the typical women you see in Hetero porn who have a fake tan, fake silicone breasts, and long claw like fake nails.
I get majorly turned on by porn and fantasies where there’s a male/male/female 3 way and many male bisexuals do as well. Some bisexual men are more into one on one and that’s fine
I’ve had times where that is all I wanted.
The author of the study you wrote about, Mr. Bailey, is the same guy who has also published work to the effect that parents should take advantage of future genetics technology to selectively make their babies be heterosexual, ’cause it seems like the moral thing to do.
Poor Dr. Kinsey-who was a bisexual man BTW, he must be rolling to a new magnum lava level in his grave. This study not only distorts what we know about the variety and spectrum of human sexual desire; it also offends in its deliberate ignorance about the nature of erotic fantasy itself.
I’m friends with actual scientists who do research studies all the time and some of these men are bisexual men and gay men and we had a good laugh at the Bailey study on male bisexuality. Have you even looked at the study that someone else linked you to? It’s completely flawed and a joke.
Every single man who is actually Bisexual is a “true” bisexual.
All it means to be bisexual is that you are sexually attracted to both men and women.
You do not have to fall in love or want a relationship with both genders to be bisexual, you do not have to have 3 ways or be constantly sexually active with both genders, and you don’t have to even have had sex with one or both genders at all to be bisexual.
If you look at the Kinsey Scale, everything that’s between 0-Hetero/straight and 6-gay/lesbian is bisexual.
It is like this on the Klein Grid as well in between the two points of Hetero and
I prefer this scale of human sexuality because it takes into account sexual fantasies/desires and who you fall in love with while the Kinsey scale does not.
I can fall in love and have relationships with both men and women and I have done this but not everyone that is bisexual-including bisexual women, can do this but they are still bisexual.
Bisexuals can be monogamous as well too.
I personally do not put my bisexuality into ratios or percentages at all since I’ve had different percents and ratios and degrees of attraction to men and women through the decades-this is totally normal and happens to bisexuals BTW.
However I know some bisexuals who have done this and there are many ways to be bisexual such as 50/50 or equal, 60/40, 90% gay 10% hetero, 80% gay 20% hetero, 80% hetero 20% gay, etc.
It’s possible to be bisexual and be more into men for both romance/relationships and sexual attraction, but you just want sex only with women. Some bisexuals are pretty equal in their romantic and sexual attractions for men and women, and some are more sexually attracted to the opposite gender and just want sex with the same gender which there’s nothing wrong with.
There is still this assumption that a bisexual man who dates a woman is “straight” but “gay”
if he dates a man, and that’s not true. The interest in both sexes doesn’t disappear because a bisexual man decides to have a monogamous relationship.
It’s like how if you are a gay man you know that you’re homosexual even if you have never ever had sex at all and you’re a virgin. I’m not a gay man but my friends who are gay men even the ones who did have sex with women when they were closeted or younger have told me how they have never had any sexual attractions towards women at all.
With bisexuals-both men and women you are always going to have sexual attraction to both men and women and your sexual attractions to both men and women do not ever go away. This does not mean that you have to act on your sexual attractions to men and women to be sexually satisfied or to have a satisfying relationship with someone of the opposite sex or same sex.
No not all gay men or most gay men are biphobic like Dan Savage and Harvey Fierstein are.
I would not even say that the gay male community as a whole is biphobic like you want to claim that most gay men are because of something in the Torch-song Trilogy. All the song/lines from the Torch-song Trilogy do is just reflect the fact that Harvey Firestein does not understand male bisexuality.
I do know many bisexual men who have relationships/partnerships with gay men as their husband/boyfriend and they either had affairs with women as girlfriends or with male and female couples for a 3 way, or they have an open relationship with their partner and they
have female lovers/fuck buddies on the side.
Dan Savage has always been biphobic, now he’s just doubling down on his outdated, ancient attitudes.
Savage claims to have bisexual and transgendered friends, but it’s clear from his language that he does not respect them as much as his gay male friends. It’s only natural to doubt
someone who identifies as bisexual? That’s some awful marginalization there.
I have been out as a bisexual man and part of the GLBT/queer community for awhile, and I have found that most gay men are accepting of bisexuality and do understand it even if they themselves are not bisexual.
There are a whole shit load of latent bisexuals masquerading around as gay men because they are ignorant of the fact that bisexual doesn’t only mean an equal attraction to both genders or they’re too scared to admit it because they’ve invested so much of their time and energy
cultivating a gay identity.
There are some gay men who are highly bigoted towards bisexual men and they like to claim that it’s somehow possible for a woman to be bisexual but not for a man to be bisexual or that it’s very rare for a man to be bisexual.
This is just as bad as when I’ve seen straight men tell gay men how deep down inside the gay man somehow wants sex with a woman or hasn’t met the right woman yet. There are some lesbians who
dislike bisexual women and trans women. These factors are also reasons why men and women who are bisexual yet call themselves gay or lesbian do not want to come out.
It is not hate or bigotry to say how yes some gay men, lesbians, and straight people are biphobic.
Biphobia is just as oppressive as Homophobia is.
As for Heterosexual people they seem to think that male bisexuals are gay men when we’re not homosexual or gay at all, and if they’re a straight man they think that a bisexual woman is an invite to a 3 way with two women at the same time.
The dirty little secret that never gets addressed in the so called “gay” world is the fact that many once gay identified men do go through a second coming out and re-identify as bisexual because they are actually/truly bisexual. These men may still overwhelmingly prefer men, but their orientation and identity are not exclusively towards men.
If you know of the bear author/writer Ron Jackson Suresha who wrote the book Bears on bears, he once identified as a gay man but he discovered that he is actually bisexual and came out as a bisexual man.
With these male bisexuals their attractions to both sexes manifests differently as well.
The ridiculous protest that “well sexual attraction to a woman just happened that one time, it doesn’t mean anything, it’s not going to happen again” belies the fact if you really were gay it wouldn’t have happened in the first place and to now assume that it would never happen again defies basic logic.
I don’t care if you refuse to ever date a bisexual man ever again. I am not going to lose sleep over it. Stay bigoted and claim that Bisexuals were never part of the gay or GLBT revolution. This is what bigots like you like to do, rewrite history and claim that bisexuals and Trans people were never at Stonewall or that bisexuals have never a part of
the liberation of ALL GLBT people which is pure BS.
Bisexuals have always been at the front lines of gay liberation and for gay male rights even if you want to pretend that we were not there.
Everyone has their own personal preferences when it comes to who they want to date or have a relationship with.
I know bisexual men who have told me how they refuse to date gay men because of the issues and drama that they say can come from dating a gay man that does not happen when they date or have a relationship with a bisexual man.
It goes the same way for how there are bisexual men who refuse to date or get into a relationship with a straight woman.
My issue with your comments are that you are continuing to support a very poor paradigm of human sexuality that does not reflect reality at all.
You’re supporting a model of human sexuality which ultimately forces men into the “straight” or “gay” box. That was fine in the 40’s before Kinsey’s studies on human sexuality, but we know better now. It’s disingenuous for you to say that folks have every right to believe a man is lying when he calls himself “bisexual”. Your comments show that you clearly don’t understand human sexuality or bisexuality as much as you claim.
I forgot to put this in before the last paragraph:
Anyone who dares question the “It gets better project” by saying that the message is the stock equivalent to what’s told to all bullied/depressed teens/youth and that there are more effective ways to combat GLBT youth/teen suicide than by telling people “it gets better” from afar on youtube videos is deemed a horrible person.
As I said, Dave, it’s just too gay for me to read. I wasn’t joking!
My last post should read “very limited and provincial worldview”.
so what did you write on his blog? I can’t read it since apparently he’s censoring comments that conflict with his worldview and reality and show how little he knows about male sexuality.
Dan Savage is no expert in sex. His view on male sexuality is too restrictive. He tends to see male sexuality through a political lens rather than through a real-life lens. Male sexuality is far more complex than the simple “gay or straight” categories propagated by Gay Inc.
I think you’re right, Dave, that lesgays, particularly American ones, are often much too fast to pass on the hate to bis. And yes, pretty much all of their arguments against bisexuality are disappointingly similar to the ones deployed against homosexuality, but with added hypocrisy. Gays are just as monotheistic as straights, possibly more so. But perhaps the worst trait of all is the school-ground tribalism. It doesn’t really make you want to join the Gay Team.
I’m sorry, that blog was too gay to read.
Mark, you should reply to the blog I posted or write about how gay men and lesbians like to claim that bisexual men and women somehow get more “heterosexual privilege” than heterosexual people somehow do.
Or how if a bisexual person once identified as gay or lesbian and then came out/discovered that they are bisexual this enrages gay men and lesbians who deny their sexuality and do what American Conservative politicians, psychologists, and the “ex gay” groups have done to gay men and lesbians for decades and the gay men and lesbians are just passing on this hate to bisexuals.
Here’s another sad homosexual man who agrees with Musto and the Bailey study which he claims is true.
He’s using the “True Bisexual men don’t exist and are really gay men”, “Bisexual men are just straight or gay men who experiment!”, and “Bisexuals get all the heterosexual privilage in the world even more than straight people have!” strawman arguments that gay men, lesbians, and straight people who don’t understand bisexuality at all love to use!
Good for the gay men who secretly want bisexuals. I’ve had my experiences with about 5 of them, and I’m NEVER going near anyone of them again, ever.
haha … the one who is posting the comments
p.s. The American prejudice against bisexuality is tied primarily to their desire to believe in the genetic origin of sexuality, which tends to push people one way or the other; there being a sort of absoluteness to that view, which they don’t want to give ground on; That is prety cowardly, I think.
It’s clearly true that some men identify themselves with being being bi because they believe that it’s safer, hipper to not just be a homo. I think that it came around with hipness at about the time that the metrosexual thing did. i’ve known a number of ‘bi’s ‘ who only have sex with men and are onventional bottoms. I know from my own experience thaty I have had sex wit both men and women. Women are more difficult because they usually seem to want some kind of commitment, which changes the geography of the wholesexual event.
Likewise , while I agree with Steven about a presumed equal attracton being difficult and not necessary to mesure, it seems to be goofy to anticipate the kind of sex you want which is different with different conformation: i.e. you would probablty not blow a woman or fist her due to conformation issues. Oral sex with a woman requires a different procedure.
From my own experience it just requires kind of a different mind set to do one or the other. I knew one young male prostetute who claimed believably that he liked women ten times more than men, and yet paid to have sex on one occasion with me,Why I don’t know. But I think that it points to matters of personality. I know that I can tell straight men a lot more about making love to women than they are aware of., just because I’m adventuresome.
So it can be complicated. To a large degree, it depends on developing tastes, willingness ,and becoming accustomed to doing new things. I saw the BBC version of Tchicovsky’s life and it was pictured truely, that he was literally horrified by the prospect of having intercourse with his wife; she ended up going insane. So it may be good to watch what we set ourselves up for.
And why do people, Musto in particular, assume that bisexuals have to be “equally attracted to both men and women”? Is 51% & 49% not good enough. Or 60% and 40%. And how do we ever know? And who cares? Just let’s stop trying to cram everyone into either a 0%, 50% or 100% box please!