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Macho Nachos: Man-Sized Oral Insatiability

Being English, and therefore by definition irredeemably effete to most Americans, I’m fascinated by the way our colonial cousins appear to love rolling hysterically hirsute words like ‘macho’, ‘manly’ and the double-furry, XXL ‘manly men’ around in their mouths.

When they’re not exhorting everyone to ‘man up!’, whatever that means.  The self-consciousness of all this man-lurve, and the ticklishness of those androgenic adjectives, tend to make us fey English just giggle and roll our eyes. Or gag.

In the UK the notion of ‘manly cupcakes’ and a ‘Butch Bakery‘ would be a Little Britain sketch.  While compiling a list of our ‘manliest cities’ could only be a Monty Python sketch.  But in the US it’s a serious business.

‘The COMBOS® “America’s Manliest Cities” study ranks 50 major metropolitan areas, using manly criteria like the number of home improvement stores, steak houses, pickup trucks and motorcycles per capita. “We’re excited to release the second installment of the COMBOS® ‘America’s Manliest Cities’ rankings,” said Craig Hall, general manager, Mars Chocolate North America. “Charlotte is NASCAR country so we’re not surprised that they’ve taken over the top spot. After all, COMBOS® has been the ‘Official Cheese-Filled Snack of NASCAR’ since 2002.”’

Now, I would like to imagine that even in the US the notion that a metropolitan area can be ‘manly’ is meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek. Taken to be a bit of a laugh.  But there isn’t too much evidence of this.  The list of America’s Manliest Cities is in its fourth year.

Perhaps I’m not the best judge of these things, but I’m not entirely sure what is so ‘manly’ about this list anyway – compiled, you’ll note, on the basis of consumption: ‘…using manly criteria like the number of home improvement stores, steak houses, pickup trucks and motorcycles per capita.’

With a large, ‘man-sized’ slice of generosity we might say this list is celebrating ‘blue collar’ towns.  Without the generosity, and noting the mammoth candy producing sponsor Mars Chocolate North America and their ‘cheese-filled snacks’– and the weighty fact that 31% of US males over the age of 15 are already obese, most of them from the lower end of the social spectrum – we might say this list should be renamed ‘America’s Fattest Cities’.

Since America stopped making things its working class have been turned by corporate design into its over-eating class.  Consumption, particularly of processed food, is now its job.  In the US every other ad on the radio and TV is for processed food of some kind – reminding America to get back to work. Eating. So perhaps it only makes sense that the masculine pride that used to go with blue-collar professions has now been transferred, by Madison Avenue, to stuffing yourself with fast-food, candy and cheese-filled snacks while sitting on your broadening ass.  Man up to oral insatiability! is the real tagline of pretty much all this kind of advertising (e.g. the famous ‘Manthem’ ad for Burger King of a few years back.)

There seems to be an overlap here with bearism, the gay American cult for supersized furriness, which knows a thing or two about oral insatiability. American gays live, of course, in the same America as other Americans. Exposed to the same advertising and the same cheap, always-available fast-food, many gay men in the US are also obese.  In a sense, bearism was the gay world’s own advertising campaign to recast a shaped beard standing in for a missing jawline as ‘manly’ – and therefore desirable. Though as I like to say to bears who think that their fetish represents ‘real’ and ‘authentic’ masculinity compared to ‘those queens’, bearism isn’t about being a manly man – it’s about becoming a fatter, hairier version of your mother.

Gay or straight, empty calories are used to fill the manly emptiness inside. Mars also produce Snickers – a highly fattening product that is sold to boys as being a ‘manly’ antidote to general faginess with the tagline ‘Get some nuts!’.  (In your mouth.) Perhaps this is why San Diego, Los Angeles, New York and San Francisco come at or near the bottom of Mars’ list of ‘manly cities’.

The UK for all its ticklishness about ‘manliness’, is fast catching up with the US in the obesity stakes, and similar strategies are being employed (often by the same giant US food processing corporations) to make over-sized man portions seem less about insatiability than about virility. Mars itself ran into trouble here a few years ago for making their candy bars ever bigger and contributing to childhood obesity.

Of course, supersizing yourself actually diminishes your virility. Obesity lowers your levels of testosterone, as well as causing you to lose sight of your John Thomas, while growing man-boobs.

The epidemic of obesity amongst pre-pubescent young boys on both sides of the Atlantic means that many of them never really experience puberty. Oh, their voices break, they get furrier and their genitals mature, but their body won’t really change shape.  It will be ovoid and lipid – and ‘momsy’ – forever. Until they’re put in a super-sized casket. Possessing a masculine body will always be just a dream.

But not to worry, advertising can sell them even more comforting processed food as… ‘manly’!

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111 thoughts on “Macho Nachos: Man-Sized Oral Insatiability”

  1. Right Marcelo! I didn’t want to scandalize anyone, but I without a doubt both headbang and the fatties would benefit from a healthy dose of heroin every so often, with none of the ill effects of alcohol etc to the body.

    you can add a few interesting things but health 7 sanity should come first.

  2. Marcelo, thanks you for that. Some days, I feel like a zombie cockroach, and my job is the wasp. Every time I prepare a PowerPoint presentation, I feel like a little larva eats away at my insides. Perhaps there is a brain chemical I can inject that will let me walk away? Let’s try alcohol.

  3. Wouldn’t some people wish. Once I worked in Surgery for a Dr. Who Specialized in taking intestine out of Fatties(200+/year) so they could shit like geese and not take in Calories. When asked about why they were fat he said just that “they eat like hogs” eg. aside from large meals having 56-60 sandwiches.

  4. That’s Mark S! I think . . .

    I don’t care how fancy, or manly, or camp, or ironic a cupcake is — $4 each is insane!!!

    There was nothing wrong with cupcakes when I was a kid, and I bake a pretty good cupcake to this day, but the chance of me purchasing one from these shops is equivalent to me buying a cup of joe from Starbucks — nil, nada, zero, zilch. It is just NOT going to happen.

    And don’t get me started on frozen yogurt shops . . .

  5. If some soldier or citizen buys those b-52 camouflage cupcakes, I don’t care how tall they are, I’m tying them to a pink ribbon with cutesy formic and bunny silhouettes. And yet I have no such instinct towards whopper munchers. No, wait…now I do.

    As to McChrystal, he helps america remain undefeated, in the war on fun. Perhaps his constant swearing was less a style and more a geriatric profanity disorder, where all the libido had been stuffed?

    BTW, I recently spent a couple weeks sleeping 5.5 hours a day, working 14 hours and I never got so much done so efficiently! But I may have been brushing my teeth in a trance for the remaining 4.5 hours, to deal with the hunger pangs for junk food, because I can’t account for the remainder out of 24.

  6. I didn’t say I blamed them, I said I wanted to punch them in the face.

    It was clearly a remark with affection for the two young boys qrg

    But, since you’ve intellectualized it.
    Personally, as you know, I don’t trust the ego. And I generally think that all parents try to kill their children in one form or another. As I said before – life feeds on life.

    I’m not blaming them – but I am reacting to them. There is a difference.

    If i poke you in the eye – you’d react by slapping me across the face no? I could say ‘hey don’t blame me, mum dad, society and many other factors made me poke you in the eye I’m completely innocent’ – which is true.

    But, you’d still react by slapping me in the face.

    And, yes – I may get turned on.

    Mary Lynn: damn you! Can i at least lick the straw.

  7. I’m surprised the gainers don’t get together with the sploshers – it seems like a perfect marriage.

    I’m just so surprised at their ages – one is 21! He’ll be lucky to see his 40th – I feel like punching his parents in the face.

  8. I thought I’d heard of, if not engaged in just about everything. but this leaves me. . . happily naive if not nauseous!

  9. ‘In some circles, the terms “gainer” and “encourager” are viewed as homosexual terms, whereas “feeder” and “feedee” are viewed as their heterosexual synonyms. While this is a common perception in the weight gain community, it is not a universal attitude, as many heterosexuals who are gaining weight of their own volition, without the aid of a feeder, generally characterize themselves as gainers rather than as feedees. It should also be noted that many participants in the community will use gainer and feedee interchangeably. This is also true of feeder and encourager.’

    How sweet that even with a ‘paraphilia’ such as this the urge to maintain the hygienic homo/hetero, feeder/feedee, masculine/feminine dichotomy persists, but inevitably ends up with the usual sloppy mess.

  10. Does anyone know about ‘gainers’?

    I just came across the term on Xtube. Two guys had a page profile that left my head spinning.

    “My name is xxxx im a 21 yr old chubby bear partnered with a hot young chub named xxxx We have been together for almost 3 yrs now and we love every minute of it. We have threesomes every so often. We are both gainers and love food haha. Im currently 330 pounds hope to get up to 360 for now. Alex is currenty 400 pounds but he doesn”t know what he wants his goal to be atm.”

    They have several fuck videos up – it all looks so complicated!

    “A male fat fetishist may enjoy inserting his penis between the deep folds of skin on an overweight person’s body, and thrusting to orgasm in a practice similar to mammary intercourse” After reading that entry – I just don’t know where to start dissecting that.

    If you read the section on feederism, it made me think that the people at Burger King (and corporate America in general) might be feederistas.

    I’ll leave the rest for you witty people to dissect. Check out the ‘stuffing’ section.

  11. Most larger US military bases are amply provided with fast food outlets, perhaps to remind the troops what they’re fighting for. My ‘Queen is Dead’ co-respondent and strictly vegetarian ‘meat-gazer’ Steve Z memorably wrote about cruising a glory hole in the men’s rest room in one Burger King outlet on an American base in Germany.

    American fast food outlets are particularly popular with troops stationed in strange foreign, non-Christian lands – perhaps for the ‘comfort food’ factor. A thick vanilla shake or Double Whopper with cheese must be at its tastiest just after surviving an IED attack. General Stanley McChrystal, who seems like a real killjoy, tried to ban fast food outlets like Pizza Hut, Dairy Queen and BK from US base in Kandahar in Afghanistan – along with alcohol and… salsa classes. He runs eight miles a day, sleeps four hours and eats only one meal. In other words: a certified nut job.

    ‘The boardwalk area also has an Oakley sunglasses shop, a Subway sandwich bar and a Delice de France. The Harley-Davidson concession offering tax-free motorbikes delivered to soldiers’ homes is also going.’

    McChrystal famously lost his job not long after when he criticised Obama in a Rolling Stone interview. I suspect his bans on fast food were quietly reversed by his successor. Though not the bans on salsa classes. And the gays.

  12. “it is a concern that foucault came to some massively wrong conclusions simply based on his own individual experience”

    That’s pretty much what I said. he had an experience, then wrote about it (a little too much I think). Generally speaking, the after thought or writing of it (same thing) is usually wrong because all we have is our personal and social history to understand something (which is highly dubious at best, and yes, a very very human thing to do). But his immediate thought-less experience was the only really true and honest thing that happened. The rest of his opinion was like most opinions – it is free of the experience (the past) and purely sits in his word/memory based historical head.

    I’m keen on reading your Foucault novel though (I’m trying to write something myself… er, struggling to write something – actually it seems to be more of a question of whether I have the capacity to write something longer than a few pages – maybe you and Mark S can give me some advice?)

  13. The more any two people relate to one another
    as people the proportionately less is the chance of their relating to one another sexually. It is impossible to understand Foucault unless you comprehend the central notion of desujectification as a prerequiste to passionate sex. GAY OR STRAIGHT. Desubjectification is very simply not comprehending the other as a thinking, judging, even maybe a feeling person. It is making them an object for your satisfaction. If both persons have the same expectation, then you have a potential match. Nobody wants to fuck your brain! Indeed that’s silly if you think about it.
    I think that my older brother has a successful sexual relationship with his 3rd wife because they live in different houses(next to each other, have different academic specialties and interests , different friends, and even othen go on different vacations. Their point of commonness is sex.

  14. Marcelo: My only caution is not to fuck Mrs Sullivan: you’d give up sex forever!and that one would surely talk you to death if not marry you in your state of confusion.

    With regards to Foucault, I think that you have to understand that he undoubtedly learned vis -a vis object lesson what he later talked about. He most assuredly didn’t talk about it first-that would be a self defeating exercise.
    The important concept in this respect to realize is that of desubjectification: that is that you remove everything from each other which makes you an individual person (outside of being a sexual body); absolute anonymity. Then you can enounter each other only as sexual objects of each other. In that situation, even knowing a name or being treated tenderly i.e.kissing, was way too personal.He regarded this “bathhouse sex” as being ideal.

  15. Mark w: It is true that I have eaten chocolate and giggled – maybe i am a big hairy version of my mother after all because she also likes chocolate and giggles ; ) Damn you ma!!

    And for the record I’m not a huge fan of most homo spokespeople: neither Bruce ‘look at me look at me’ laBruce or Andrea Sullivan or Glenda Beck (Jack Donovan). Although, I’d be willing to challenge any one of them to a face to face chat off. And possible try to fuck Jack. Who knows, i might end up liking them.

  16. Mary Lynn: Everything you say is so right on! the city has an amazing ambiance and has for literally centuries been the destiny of artists and excentrics of all sorts. Somehow there persists a sense that if anything unfortunate happened it would have been well worth it.

  17. My family has deep roots in the San Francisco Bay Area, and there is really no place like it.

    If you are writing about someone, it is best if you can spend time where they did and soak up the place.

    The incredible geography of San Fran (don’t call it Frisco), and the city’s architecture and ambiance alone, will help you understand why it seems anything is possible there. You can’t help but be more of a “free thinker” when confronted with such awe inspiring surroundings.

    Forget “Milk”, which did it’s story, and the city a disservice (I can’t believe it won an Oscar for best actor and screenplay — I can’t quite put my finger on why it failed in my eyes, it just did), and watch “Bullitt”, the Dirty Harry movies, “Petulia”, “Vertigo”, “Pal Joey”, “Flower Drum Song”, and of course “San Francisco.”

    The lingering sense that it can all come crashing down in an earthquake at any minute is a big part of SF’s personality. If you are in a big quake there (like I was in 1989), the fear is never far.

    Places built on big gambles are fertile ground for open minds, and tend to welcome all comers.

    I can’t speak much to the gay experience there, other than as an observer, but I can say the character of the place is like none other, and it should be experienced first hand.

  18. Puts me in mind of the wonderful slogan for a sandwich sold at the White Castle fast food chain in the States: “Temptation lies between the buns.”

  19. Without your being explicit at all and just making vague reiterations of issue that I have answered to, you seem to just be extremely passive aggressive/irrelivant. You need to give more explicit accounts of your disagreements or they become meaningless.I am not above changing my outlook but without any playing field there is no play.

    Many people have their own “play house’s” at home if you want to try fisting.

  20. The gay scene was formed by the many thousands of gay people who flocked there from all over the world. To say that any on person was responsible for anything is to minimize the immensity of the gay movement there. I would guess that it was truly the greatest experiment in gay community that ever existed. Gay bashing was almost literally unheard of. There were just to many manly gay men who would readily defend their brothers.

  21. There were a number of bars and especially exotic, extensive bathhouses South of Market.
    Even one very large straight one. Some of them specialized in fisting-with slings etc.several were a golden shower places-very well designed multilevel structures.
    Large multilevel dance floors. The tragedy of closing thebathhouses was a horendous event, happening in the latter 80’s.
    The Tenderloin was just across Market- the main Street. This was ind of the belly of the beast as far as drugs traffic etc went although that happened everywhere. Also most of the hookers and hustlers and drag queens resided there.
    There were large dance floors all over town. The Castro was a t the end of Market Street.
    The article seems to present a picture which is very limited, when there were several hundred gay establishments.

    They ofcourse eliminated all of this from “Milk” a true milqtoast production.

  22. BTW thanks for the Poster ref. great reprsentation. Achuck Arnette is awefuly good.
    As I said before, hairy people were just part of things then. That’s why the hairy, roly-poly became marginalized. People were in good shape physically almost invariably.

  23. People to often neglect the central fact that philosophy to Foucault was an activity most ideally lived. Most effective philosophers regard any of it’s activities as a matter of doing, not sitting conceptualizing away. Even to Socrates it was a living matter of engaging in an activty.
    Many people don’t know that Foucault died delivering a bomb in the Spanish Civil War.He was not an armchair ponderer.

  24. Things use to be so much simpler; Onceyou put the “brain in there, you eliminate desubjectification, and have an instant mess.

    How simpler it was just to get high go to a bathhouse and meet your match(es).

  25. I was being a bit silly in generalizing about bears. While it is certainly true that that the characterization hppened long after gauy men wr sexually liberated and that their originator was a chunky marriage freak, I have seen some awesome hispanic S/M bottoms advertised, and have a feeling that this is for real. Where I live now in the boondocks of civilization, gay people have reverted(or remained with) the the marriage stereotype and have truly never experimented much with anonymous or any sort of inventive sex. No fun at all.

  26. Marcelo: Not to ruin the bear romance, but Foucault, who lived at the same times I did in San Francisco, way before there was such thng as a “bear” expressed the situatio of homosexuality as free of any constrants of heterosexuality; two men left to create;’ they are faced with one another,without armor, without conventional phrases,without anything to stabalize the meaning of the movement which takes them toward each other. They have to invent everything from A to Z. Self invention is not a luxury… but a necessity”. [t is } becoming homosexual
    This happened decades before bearism even came to mind.
    I can assure you that we did and tried everything during that time.Anything having to do with heterosexual conventions,E.g Md. I feel very certain that bears, by virtue of their cocreation by a conservatve Catholc with the Marriage
    mandate, mostly just (from reports) just role around in bed eatting chocolates and gigglng;)

  27. I generally think the brain just leaps to what’s on offer.

    Just look at what we eat, compared to what we used to eat.

    If I want a guy, I ask myself, “how do I do that?” So how do I get a guy? The only thing we’ve known is hetero dynamics. So it’s natural for the majority to follow suite (this, I’m sure, happens as part of the growing process). Although, as some bears and other groups show that two men can be sensitive without following male/female paradigms, then that may bring about a more general different way.

    I may be wrong of course.

    Although this video I think says a lot more than words.

    I do think that my rocky relationship with women has also dictated a lot of my earlier teenage conclusions when it comes to effeminacy and effeminacy in men. Mother is Italian (they invented passive aggressiveness) and a highly conceptual person (her brain is on constant ‘thinking/worrying’ mode).

    I’m sure that part of my attraction to some men was the ability to not be so ‘lost in the mind’.

    Anyway, haven’t we spoken about all this stuff like a billion times at this point – i think i might finally post a fully loaded picture of my throbbing meaty cock just to see which one of you over conceptualizes the image or which one of you just might get a little “chub”.

  28. I am in agreement on many of the points regarding obesity and the dangers of advertising that link un-restrained appetites with manliness. However, I think the post errs on a few points:

    A) There is a strain of irony in the manly-men popular culture that is worth noting. The long running American TV show “Home Improvement” regularly poked fun at the disjuncture of manly-men self-image and the reality of how most American men live their lives. The movie “Talledega Nights” also did this for the NASCAR dad segment.

    B) This sentence is the most problematic for me: “Though as I like to say to bears who think that their fetish represents ‘real’ and ‘authentic’ masculinity compared to ‘those queens’, bearism isn’t about being a manly man – it’s about becoming a fatter, hairier version of your mother.”

    I concur that bearism is a taste like many other tastes (I prefer Coke over Pepsi and I prefer bearded men over clean-shaven ones) I think the reference to mothers betrays a certain British-centrism to be honest–let me explain.

    As a gay man I’m not attracted to bearish men because modern advertising that plays on the insecurities of straight men. I’m attracted to bearish men because when I was 11 in the rural American midwest, the men around me had beards, broad shoulders and beer bellies. There are many men of Slavic, German or northern European origin who quite naturally to look a certain way. This isn’t an advertising slogan it is the reality of American male demographics.

    Many gay men who prefer “bears” also come the rural areas I grew up in and moved to big cities. They’re not looking for hairy mothers, they’re looking for guys who look like their fathers, brothers or neighbors back home. When visited the UK I was surprised by the absence of large framed men in general. In my view the gay bear culture is a function of both taste and the genetic stock of the American male population.

  29. Mark W, I live in Vegas, but am not a professional poker player. I might be missing my calling . . . anyways, here you learn that life is all about luck, and the cards are definitely stacked against you.

    I don’t make the rules, I don’t enforce them, but I will remind you of why they exist.

    Yes, Morrissey’s little mound of misery has made him quite a chunk of change.

  30. I will try to make this brief: I believe that the process of desubjectification with happens between men to maximize sexual excitment is I believe what happens ideally between a man and a woman. Ideally they “separate’ each other by a process in which there is a mutual ego separation, which if you just look art the male side and say that he sees her as “less than” you are seeing only part of the equation which makes for good sex. Each person, to the degree to which they can separate and distinquish themselves as “different than” allows for greater sexual energy potential. This only becomes less than the degree that one of the partners allows her/himself to feel inferior and not simply and ideally different. In many cases the female may dig her wn grave as a sexual partner by trying to be like the male(as feminism would often have it )instead of female in a positive way.

  31. Mark W: You have certainly lived both sides of this coin. Thanks for the insight but as you mentioned Marcelo made great case in point. I still think it is a lack of any identity for gays over the past decades that has created this behaviour

  32. In my younger days, I was dubbed “Queen of the Mind F*ck,” which I guess I should of taken as a compliment, only it came from someone I thought I really cared about and desired, who rejected my overtures. That wasn’t fun.

    The moral of the story is you can play all the mind games you want, and even excel at them, but you’ll probably still end up listening to Morrissey and crying yourself to sleep.

    Eventually I just gave up on the whole mess, and I’m much happier now. You can immerse yourself in it, experiment, talk and write about it ’til the cows come home, but it doesn’t change anything.

    It doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. Now, if you can SELL that little mound, you might have something.

  33. Marcelo: Yes a partner who decided to get married( to a woman) as a form of safe identification.

    I think it is a lack of any form of identification that creates this need to try on the nearest ill fitting identity though. Not really a desire to be feminine but as you suggested a desire to be very very safe and accepted.

    ps please tell me more about Bear Nation

  34. It was the very oppressive tendancy of gay people where I lived as a young man (and live currently) which forced me to leave. I hated to me regarde only as ‘husband material” for the set of queens who would’t befriend me but wanted me as a partner. Going to New York city I discovered that while that ight have existed as a sort of (paradigm of coupleing) with some people it was by no means pervasive and was old fashioned in the City.

    I did find that I was “picked” as a “top” most often, there was no role playing other than the sexual position which is another issue than M/F I think.

    I never thought of the tendency to be femanine as a means of attracting men for sex, but only a result just of role modeling, with no sexual expectations.
    You may be right!It never occured to me that Males would try to look like women to attract gay Males. I think that is because I lived in very urban areas and sex was more as QRG describes it.

    I moved to San Francisco afterward and everyone was a man unless you were really a queen- often with breasts and dress like a woman or in “gender fuck”. Then it was just for dress up or to turn tricks with straight men. Now I can see when I was young and prostuituted myself to a banker or company president, they always wanted to” be the man” and be on top, as strange as that was for me. A role reversal of the same paradigm.
    Now that mention this Graham, I can see how the marriage paradigm makes sense to some gay men- and Mark S has talked about this latency. They want to be like their mother’s and get a man.

    That has never made sense to me since my mother spent her life regretting sorely getting the man she had gotten.

    Foucault’s Desubjectification makes total sense as the kind of sex QRG suggests + anonymity (in a complete way).

  35. Ahhh, the terrible fear driven need to just “fit in”. Did any of you guys ever have a friend who one day turned goth or some other form of safe identification?

    A young gay friend that I know shaves his entire body (arms too) and he also plucks his eyebrows, and wears skin toner make up. His room is full of photo shoot glamour advertising and littered with every perfume and makeup you can think of. Lot’s and lots of Gaga on the wall – of course he doesn’t view her in any sort of intellectual way – most of which I think is projection on all sides – I’m sure she’s cunning and smart, but probably more cunning than smart (btw did you know that the guy that made BearNation (I put up the trailer before) is making a doco on Gaga?).

    Regardless – My friend wants to be Gaga (he literally changes his outfit 2 0r 3 times a day). He wants to be rich and famous, like Paris Hilton. He is 19. Essentially he’s a bimbo’d teenage 80’s ‘Valley girl’/trophy wife. He wants a rich hairless fat free muscly six pack guy to take care of him – since he’s addicted to shopping. Of course that guy has to be ‘masculine’ he’s not into men like him. He’s trick is to date closeted men in hetero relationships because they are usually religious in origin (like him) and are drenched in the whole “man must be with woman” thing so the closeted man will usually though not always date fems secretly. My friend walks/ talks/acts like most young Gay men. He is essentially – a mix of a brainwashed woman from the 50’s/ Paris Hilton/Kim Kardashian rolled into a neat, easily sold gay package.

    Surrounded by all that – he must feel very very safe.

  36. I want to catch you there, girl with an significant philosophical point since it unlies a paradox which I think you tolerate unconciously. Gay men do not make women of other men; rather i think they make objects of other men; or of each other.
    Even Foucault claims that this desubjectification is necessary for good sex, in males at least. Desubjectification is anonymity; that you don’t know each other in any way but to use each other physically.
    My veiw in this is that it sems true in M/M sex for me: that sex is an aggressive act, not having any connection with love.

    I am pretty sure from much questioning that this is true of men. As you see this is just objectifiction of the other, not making them a woman. The only way you can make that kind of logical jump is to assume that women-at least in your experience , expect something different out of sex and fail to feel mutuality.

    You are a woman, so perhaps you need to answer that.

    Because you are not just a woman, but a human being it is important to understand what you expect out of sex personally and what other women expect.

    I have a sense, from limited experience , that women treat men as objects too ideally , but that there is a disconnect logistically in how we each manage to get what we want.

    Women are less assertive about asng or demanding what they need and hence feel only like objects. I.e. how many women demand that a man give them head, or that they be on top? Men are ignorant largely of what turns women on.

    In a larger way though, it has become evident to me that much of the variation with which we have come to concieve sex roles and perhaps develope sexuality (even seemingly separate phenomenon like metrosexuality) are related to the changing roles of women in the power matrix of society.

    We are who we come to be within a context of different power relationships with everyone in our society. So women are always relevant, no matter what role they happened to play: Society is a complex system. Men could not escape the effect of women unless they were born without mothers.

  37. I’m glad you made that clarficqation, it’s more interesting. I’m hitting the hay (ging to bed but think that is worth some thought.

  38. Mark W: Thanks for the info, but just for the record, I was referring to effeminacy (in men) and all the forms that it comes in… not just smooth skin. More a backlash to the sexual(gender) fascism that we are slowly emerging from. I think they were(are) saying… “No I won’t wear a dress just to make you feel more comfortable (with the fact that you want to fuck me and its my masculine attributes that are giving you a bit of a ‘chub on’ (to quote Mark S)”.

  39. Graham: That I think would be a considerable anachoronism since the trend toward waxing etc. only became a fad recently. I find that as peculiar as bearism, although not as unattractive weightwise. I think that the tendancy has to do with developing muscles and then showing them with some sort of obsesssive narcissism, without hair.
    Before bearism it was suitable just to have a degree of hairiness on the limbs, chest & stomach to varyng degrees. Some people had some in other places e.g on their backs, as long as they were in healthy condition -worked out to varying degrees.

    Bearism, as I understand it was created by a person who was distinctly very chubby and hairy all over but on the head perhaps. Later versions were more worked out but still and all weightier than had been considered desirable generally. Of course attractiveness was open somewhat to interpretation. Bears now, when they have a “beauty” contest don’t for reasons of publicity at least, choose a male with sumo wrester morphology all hairy hair. They pick someone who is muscular but not with the kind of lean body mass that is generally looked for in the more general range of worked out people.

    I was shocked too to discover that locally they tend to be ultra conservative politically like Sullivan. Rich Fat Hairy Right Wing gay Men. Of course like many extremes, they are only paradigms and are subject to all kinds of variation.

    Mark probably knows more about this history than I do.

  40. I thought bearism was a hair issue, not a weight issue. Originally meant as rebellion towards the ever present concept that I have to look like a women if I want to fuck a man,

  41. Mark: I was going to make the same remark about Andrea. Not difficult.

    Headbang: people have “feminized fat in women
    through mst of western culture, since the Venus of Willendorf: females are better reproductive material with a little spare weight. INdeeed it’s a wel knon fact in running circles that women often don’t even have periods when they get too thin.

    The thin,model look only became popular as a byproduct as with some men of cloths modeling: the more like hangers, the better the cloth falls.
    In Egypt, I hear from my arabic friends, married women are desired for being as fat as possible- it is a sign of their husbands wealth and ability to feed her well.
    I think that the prospect of sumo Sporno is a giggle: almost contradictory. These men are famous just for their strength at a certain task which is not at all related to what they look like; they are desirable because they are wealthy and famous;hardly because of physical attractivness;also they don’t live long.

    I recall that at one time many rugby guys were quite chuncky, and wouldn’t have made the Sporno grade.

  42. @ Mark S. Thank you for your kind words. Mother was, indeed, a handsome woman, much to her chagrin.

    And if your present thesis boils down to nothing more than an assertion the other Mr. S. is a nonce, hell, I’m with ya there. “Fat” is a mild insult compared to what you might have hurled his way.

    Have feminists feminised fat?

    I recall a passage at the beginning of Doctorow’s Ragtime which declared that a fat man in earler days was a man of wealth and power, and genuine masculine authority.

    And in Japan, sumo wrestlers are the spitz of masculine power, who end up marrying supermodels. It would be a jolly good thing for you to look at sumo through the lens of Sporno, Mark.

    I tell you, as a less-than-lean fag who once lived in Tokyo, I thanked those sumo guys every time I pulled in a Ni-Chome bar. I thanked them for making my waistline seem like it belonged on a celebrity.

  43. headbang8: I’m sure your mother was a looker too. In a world of male comfort-eating it’s probably time to modify Wilde’s famous aphorism: ‘All women become like their mothers. That is their tragedy. No man does. That’s his.’

  44. I look in the mirror every morning and see my mother with a goatee. So I, too, was stinging a bit from Simmo’s tirade—my male psyche is fragile, as has been noted.

    That is,’til Marcelo stepped in. Bravo.

    But Prof S. does make a point. Those who bill bears as the only “real” men do everyone a disservice. There are a thousand ways to be masculine, and let’s celebrate them all.

    But much more important here, is not the point about machismo. It’s about modern men and food.

    trigger alert: generalisations which may cause excruciating flame war)

    Food is comfort. Women know this, because they know how to comfort themsleves. They joke about it. They write about it. They draw cartoons about it, which appear on the sides of coffee mugs in gift shops.

    Men take comfort in…what? Alcohol? Porn? Pride? Reassuring themselves of their own power? A few rounds at the rifle range? Not all are as accaptable as they once were.

    Truth is, we men don’t really know how to comfort ourselves. And in fast-food loving midwestern America, the redundant, humiliated, underemployed Joe needs a bit of comfort, nowadays.

    Food was a low interest item for many men. It was fuel: nothing more, nothing less.

    But now, comfort-food needs a makeover. Butch it up with grease and salt, since girls are the ones with sweet palates.

  45. Mary Lynn: You’re not the only one who doesn’t recall San Francisco as it was presented in “Milk”; that was terrible. Actually I was there as Punk was overlapping with Disco so there was kind of a mixture, depending on what clubs you were at.They would play Cyndi Lauper along with Patti Smith&Grace Jones.
    Some of my friends were very punk. The total Disc thing was done, but music was harder, driving. as I recall now the style of dancing was punk and almost prohibited partnerng a lot.

    At that time, people danced alone very often or with little attachment with a partner; everyone was very high and would dance none stop for almost days. The main ting that distinguished gay people was that males would take their shirts off very often if they could, depending on the place and were tight jeans. Not always but often.

  46. I’m not saying he’s an ok writer. He’s made his career as a regional comedian. You might have to live here or in an odd place to appreciate that. If you want to read someone who has made a career of writing really good and often humerous sophisticated literature about this area read Louise Erdrich. Has been compared favorably to Wm. Falkner.

  47. Mark W. — actually I’m very old, and I’m just reminiscing about my youth. Growing up around San Fran, the gay thing was accepted — I watched “Milk” and didn’t remember it happening like that, I didn’t notice that much resistance to the lifestyle at the time. My sister came out in the late 1960’s in High School, and really, it was no big deal.

    I did rebel against disco, and go punk, but funk driven disco was really good stuff. I’m commenting on the fashion, and the way the guys look — skinny, dressed up, and dancing as much for themselves, and/or each other as the ladies.

    Here in Las Vegas the club scene is very big business. They are not open during the day, but you can still dance all night.

    I did crack the Burger King zesty onion ring sauce secret — ketchup, mustard, and horseradish sauce. Yummy.

    Oh, and I did gain 10 pounds in St. Paul one summer, staying at the Embassy Suites, and eating their complimentary breakfasts, joining co-workers for lunch, indulging in the manager’s receptions, and ordering room service for dinner. I had a $75 food per diem . . . good times, eh?

  48. Mary Lynn: you must be very young and people must not have much fun now: that’s just disco.Prob not gay at all. People used to dance in huge dance establishments for hours. In San Fransisco and New York one could literally dance all night and day

  49. Rejection is the Lutheran version of a Fatwa(as with Rushdie)only it’s much worse, because they let you know that they are gossiping about constantly.

  50. Damn it! Now I’m craving a Whopper (Jr.) — I try to be ladylike and order the smaller version. Mark S, the King leading the followers to the cliff is a disturbing image.

    I do love their onion ring zesty sauce, and I will try to concoct a Vegan version today — maybe with a veggie burger, I can resist the call of the drive-thru.

    Anyways, the internet has confirmed what I have always known . . . that most people are crazy, and can’t spell (present company excepted, of course.) However, some of those loons post stuff on facebook that I find amusing, like Ricardo, and this —!/home.php?sk=lf

    Those were the days . . . look at how skinny everybody is! We used to dance those Big Macs and Whoppers off. Awww . . . to be young again!

  51. Oh,I pressed the comment button before I finished a sentence: re my Irish relatives; their self denigrating humor saves them, very often, where the locals have little sense of self-reflection.

  52. I’ll have to check that film out.It must be somewhat actual or people here wouldn’t have avoided it; they’re not at all good at laughing at themselves–which of course makes the whole business worse. One thing that seems to save some of my Irish relatives fro seeming complete fools at times is their self Another local film which is humorous is “Fargo”-they have the Scandinavian dialect down pretty well.

  53. I’ll have to check that film out.It must be somewhat actual or people here wouldn’t have avoided it; they’re not at all good at laughing at themselves–which of course makes the whole business worse. One thing that seems to save some of my Irish relatives fro seeming complete fools at times is their self Another local film which is humorous is “Fargo”-the have the Scandinavian dialect down pretty well.

  54. Thanks, Mark. I don’t often beat myself up, perhaps that’s why I’m not very good at it. Next time I’ll use a professional. I thought of you last night (and I fell out of bed twice – sorry bad Smiths-quoting habit). I was watching ‘Drop Dead Gorgeous’, the beauty pageant mockumentary set in Minnesota. It’s not a great film, but it gave me a little of the Lutheran flavour of the state….

  55. Thanks, Mark. I don’t often beat myself up, perhaps that’s why I’m not very good at it. Next time I’ll use a professional. I thought of you last night (and I fell out of bed twice – sorry bad Smiths-quoting habit). I was watching ‘Drop Dead Gorgeous’, the beauty pageant mockumentary set in Minnesota. It’s not a great film, but it gave me a little of the Lutheran flavour of the state….

  56. BTW, there are plenty of guys who like hairy men. The issue is probably more the age agenda which is tiresome to anyone, hairy or not.

  57. To be fair Mark, while Marcelo has a point, if you didn’t comment on extremes and did , instead prescise sociological studies you wouldn’t have much to say, or too much to lead itself to either a point or to humor. I think that Marcelo’s adendum did nothing to diminish your point Mark; i.e He didn’t say “oh well I weigh in at 300 and am hairy as a gorilla”, he just said that he was “bearish”, which s attractive to a lot of men.It don’t find shaven queens attractive either-in fact that waxing rend is weird on a different extreme.

    Don’t beat yourself up, Mark. Or rather, you can come to Minnesota and I’ll be happy to give you a thrashing myself. I’m not fussy who I entertain that way, (this place leaves me with plenty of subliminal anger).


  58. PS Marcelo’s story reminds me, perhaps intentionally, of the way that ‘gayism’ allowed gay men to feel good about themselves and worthy of love, back in the 1970s. The clone look was a form of advertising too. After all those ‘pre-gay’ years of chasing straight trade and avoiding other gays (‘What are we gonna do? Bump pussies?’) the Marlboro Man drag said: we are the men we have been looking for.

  59. Marcelo: Thanks for teasing us with your metaphorical whopper. And thanks also for chastising me – I’m always in need of that. And a holiday. But I don’t think, alas, I’ll be able to join you in Uruguay, much fun though that sounds. Maybe one day we will hire a villa somewhere and re-enact Night of the Iguana.

    As I think I may have mentioned before, I don’t really have anything against ‘bears’ per se – what would be the point of that? – but rather ‘bearism’, the whole culty, ‘we’re real guys, yeah!’ thing. But as you point out, it wasn’t until you came into contact with that cult, or some version of it, that you began to feel… loved. And who can argue with that?

    Mary Lynn: We do have BK in the UK, promoted with those disturbing ads with a man dressed up in a grinning foam monarch outfit leading people, Lemming-like to the edge of a cliff, but I just think of it as Maccy D’s with charcoal flavouring.

    This ad seems to play with the ‘man-sized oral insatiability’ factor rather knowingly:

  60. Man… someone has to come to the defence of fat here. So why not me.

    I’m not a bear – although I have come to like the more playful ‘Cub’ term – especially since I’m not a big framed guy.

    My parents fed me like normal parents do – although it was mostly with uruguayan and italian food which is somewhat fatty but also high in protein and in a western culture. I wasn’t a jock as a kid, I was into music, tv, reading, sci fi, cock, movies, breakdancing – it was the 80’s. So I grew up with baby fat that never went away. In fact that was when I hit a few low points, got depressed, listened to melancholic music etc.

    Bear with me, I’m going somewhere with this.

    Fast forward to today. I still have a bit of a belly/love handles. I still have hair on my chest. And I still have a whopping huge cock.

    I went through all the rejections by the ‘no hair/zero fat typical homo’ over the years – this was before the bear scene showed up.

    When I found that crowd I actually began to have good sexual experiences. Those guys actually got into my hairy chest, and they kissed my stubborn belly… they, shockingly, actually found me… ugh.. a p p e a l ing(he says slowly for dramatic effect). Amongst those bears and cubs I even found a few guys that I could talk to about subjects that I found interesting. ‘Holy crap’ I thought – I may not have to cut it off and become a monk after all.

    I’ve since come to like my cub-ish body and love my hairy chest, despite the media onslaught. And, at least for me, hasn’t made me want to become bigger – in fact, I probably work out more than I ever have.

    The world that we live in created the supposed problem, then solved it.

    I’m trying to make a couple of points here. 1. that there are stories behind these bears. 2. that societal constructs like capitalism and religion paint a certain picture (as other systems would paint a different picture) but that the primary function as such does not change – only the nature of it.

    For example – The advertising industry feeds off what it creates because, like everything – life feeds on life. The ‘life feeding on life’ bit is a constant but how that happens depends on the systems we impose on that function.

    Having said that, there is some truth for some bears as far as the mommy bear thing – though, just not always and never so black and white.

    P.s. I’m kidding about the ‘whopping huge cock’. It’s neither ‘whopping’ nor ‘huge’.

    P.p.s. I don’t like it when you become this general towards people Mark S. Don’t get me wrong, I am guilty of that too – rarely if ever does language do us any justice. Look, I’m going to South America soon – why don’t you come to Uruguay for a week. You can say your doing a piece on ‘The Modern Latin Male’? We could hangout.

  61. I’d book a ticket :looks like a fun hetero scene! Don’t ask Mark- he probably as clueless as as most of us- but I can’t imagine him wanting to take part.

  62. Yes, the humor was built on their almost pubes cent naivete of their sit u a tion. very frag ile.
    Some thing I’ve noticed about het ero sex ual men is that they are about as del i cate and frag ile as their upbring ing allows.
    I think that male course ness is some thing that is taught, just as it can be taught to females. Note female gangs in Amer ica and the rough nas ti ness that they promote

    Quite Riot, for you again. don’t hit and run like that. look at these posts, direct attacks, and homophobic offensive language, which i let pass.

  63. Yes, the humor was built on their almost pubes cent naivete of their sit u a tion. very frag ile.
    Some thing I’ve noticed about het ero sex ual men is that they are about as del i cate and frag ile as their upbring ing allows.
    I think that male course ness is some thing that is taught, just as it can be taught to females. Note female gangs in Amer ica and the rough nas ti ness that they promote

    QuitRiot, what do you think this imply’s then.

  64. Mark S, is there really only Mickey D’s and KFC over there? No Burger King, Jack in the Box, Wendy’s, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, In ‘n Out, Sonic, Domino’s, Del Taco, Der Weinerschitzel, Dairy Queen, A&W, Panda Express, Fat Burgers, El Pollo Loco, Subway, and Pop Eyes? Not to mention all the wonderful, more regional joints like Whitt’s BarBQue, and Checkers, and Cheeseburger Charlies, Capriotti’s, Jersey Mikes, and Pick Up Sticks??? What about the coffee, and donut, and ice cream franchises?

    If that’s the case, I sense an opportunity for global expansion. I thought the whole world was saturated with this stuff . . . maybe I should just start hosting “eating tours” of America. Gain 10 pounds or your money back.

  65. I’m kind of stuck in going to a “whole foods” store, which is curiously a co-operative, which doesn’t seem to save any money since everything is purchased from really exclusive growers. I was diagnosed with a hereditary disease that demands that I eat gluten or wheat free food–wheat is in nearly everything-even sauces and gravies to say nothing of bread and cereal. even though I buy frozen vegetables from a cheaper store., I still pay 5 times what I normally paid for food.
    You are undoubtedly correct about the concious attempt by merchandisers to fatten Americans up, so they will eat more. It’s sort of like the experiments that cigarette companies did years ago to
    give their tobacco products maximum addictive potential-The studies were done overseas and results hidden.

    Of course the issue that Mark was addressing was primarily the “bear” phenomenon, where being heavy and hairy are sold as being desirable sexually. Interestingly, now that you mention it, the personage who introduced this concept was a Right Wing gay writer(of sorts)who is probably paid by the fat industry to make gay people attracted to the roly poly hairy types. I suppose that being just fat and bald all over would make one look like the Pillsbury Doughboy or a pile of dough. Just asking too much!

  66. Actually, it can be very cheap and easy to eat Vegetarian and Vegan in the Good ‘Ole U.S. of A. Forget restaurants and Whole Foods, and all that hippie shit and shop at the the 99 Cent Only Store.

    The one in my neck of the woods has an extenstive fresh fruit and produce section, in addition to all the cereals, breads, pastas, canned stuff, juices, nuts, etc. you could want. I get by 90% Vegan, 95% Vegetarian except for my occasional relapses into Fast Food, which are really very few and far between — but they are worth it. I love Fast Food. Always have, always will.

    The town I grew up in had ’em all, and this was in the 1960’s. It was a treat then, not a way of life, and portions were small by today’s standards. Everything changed with the introduction of the Big Mac . . . I love Big Macs.

    The only way food producers in America can make money is to make everyone eat more. The bigger we are, they more we eat. It’s awful, but it’s simple, and the evil plan has worked brilliantly.

    Now we have to pay for the health costs of a population that is 2/3 overweight, and this is what really chaps my hide.

    If you want to be fat, fine, but I don’t want to pay for your sins. And I DON’T want to sit next to you on an airplane.

    So the moral of the story is, just learn how to eat well and in moderation, and everybody KNOWS this, but people don’t do what is good for them (and the rest of us), do they?

  67. Yes, the humor was built on their almost pubescent naivete of their situation. very fragile.
    Something I’ve noticed about heterosexual men is that they are about as delicate and fragile as their upbringing allows.
    I think that male courseness is something that is taught, just as it can be taught to females. Note female gangs in America and the rough nastiness that they promote.

  68. P.s. re: “authenticity”these are the things we learn ourselves which are in opposition to or unconnected with what we are taught. E.g., I learned to enjoy running just because it occurred to me to exercise,although I had learned that hard work was rewarding in itself (work ethic?)as i grew up.

  69. P.s. re: “authenticity”these are the things we learn ourselves which are in opposition to or unconnected with what we are taught. E.g., I learned to enjoy running just because it occured to me to exercise,although I had learned that hardwork was rewarding in itself (work ethic?)

  70. Macho fags maybe the better one then, all the different terms for male sexuality probably right, in a world that is now so equal ,men to fuck how they want, women allowed to have sexuality it all adds to the mix, think it’s great, one can even identify with another gender if they want, basically as long as it suits them it’s fine, it’s a mish mash of all kinds of attitudes or whatever it may be called, what i do disagree with is any term to describe mens sexuality again, as every which way but what it is, acting , fake, fear of, it’s not a progressive attitude, it’s another put down for male sexuality, where is the female fake terms, a woman is embracing hers a man is faking his, that’s a fucked up view really i had this when i as it’s called came out, i was labelled aggressive straight acting which isn’t an wn cmpact, i was told i will develop campness, which turned out to be wrong, gay camp, bitchy queen, whatever hid behind feminism to hide their own problems with it, i never had a problem, i am me, its extremely damaging to young gay men, one view of gay, which exluded every other, me included, strange really as they displayed strong aggression toward me, their maleness was threatened by me, not my problem, the new one is i think effemenine phobia, fear of feminine ,women. it’s another aggressive put down to young gay lads, the new gay scally/chav they know like i did what they are and are secure. thats the problem i have, i will be labeled whatever other want fake or whatever, but i am just me, man likes man, to actively put young lads down like that is nothing short of disgraceful, disgusting, dangerous, and contributes to destruction of their being, and suicides. o

  71. It’s nothing so called perfect bodies, athletic bodies, which isn’t a choice male female gay or straight that is our insticts choice, we are not led by brains, we are animals, my argument isn’t my opinion it’s stripped back to reality, all animals are borderline starvation, look you will see, fat, obese is modern day cultural cop out, neither pro survival or sexual, forget following your logic for a minute, follow your instict, you desire trim sexual body for yourself and sexual attraction, swimmers body, thats it, whether you deny it or not, my desire isn’t choice it’s pure animal instict, just as being gay isn’t my choice, why is porn showing us the ideal, gay porn is obsessed with chav, slim masculine, can survive and fuck, there it is. simple, i am not sexually attracted to obesity, it’s just the way it is, and neither are you, you want a fit guy with a cock to satisfy you, right size to make you come, it’s so so simple.

  72. It’s interesting, the mix of views on what sex is, I know absolutely my sexuality and what i like and want, although there seems to be a misunderstanding about body type, it’s not bulking up, it’s not frightning, it’s amazing, what it is, is tuning to your animal, emotional, sexual side, it’s not based in thought or logic, it’s within, it’s been there for thousands of years, nature has perfected it, not so our intellect, body type is purely the most efficient effective sexual survival all that comes to a athletic build, no bulking needed, comes from being active, and eating how we should eat, It’s so clear and right, it’s worked excellent for me, i haven’t observed it, studied it, i’ve done it, proof in the pudding, i tell you there is a point at which it’s fucking amazing, it’s literally a mind fuck, orgasms,so amazing, we become one, physical and mental, me and my mate have been there, i speak from pure experience, there are no words that describe well enough, of course it’s pleasure chemicals, i also feel it when running, i never been to a gym or exercised to some book of rules, i have used my natural rules, lanscape gardener, labour intensive work, i was equipped with all that was needed, to go out and have sex, it’s been written into me, i do, my dick actually twitches, mind of it’s own, when i knows another sexual person is around, you know, how it nows is beyond me, studies can come and go, to many people are having sex, our postman, he’s a turn on, my dick twitches for him, working class, lips made for cock, full and stick out, he’s natural build, but one of so few in world i would like its sex attitude, i would love his lips on my cock, and i have the hunger for his cock, i could have cock sucking all night with him, it would be good, only two others after my mate would i have sex with, look up Francois Sagat, study him, watch his sex attitude, personality look at his masculine/feminine and be honest really honest. i have and he’s got it. so there you go, another angle on gay attitude. only trying to show honesty and natures attitude to it. it’s more powerful than anything, it’s our reason for existence it’s stronger than survival, sex drive will make me fuck to death. it happens across the animal kingdom.

  73. Well, have you ever observed the pure joy that so many non-human animals exhibit when they are out running free; E.g. dogs, horses?
    The amplitude of their exertions depends on their condition of course. But their is a release of endorphins which floods the system almost like the effects of heroin, which has caused people to address exercise as “healthy addictions”.I was in pretty good condition, since I was fairly young working on the farm on which I was raised
    so due to that and perhaps a genetic predisposition, activities like working and running were very happy experiences. To survive the stress of college, I began running daily just to keep myself on an even keel. I did this off and on all my life, because it promoted a happy mood. I think that it is true of most profesional runners that they feel exhuberance, once on the move

  74. The desire to be healthy, in the respect that I use it has nothng whatsoever or mininally to do with what anyone else thinks; it has to do athletically to do with the release of endorphins; just the pure which occurs with physical activity. Also, in relation to other people, that chidlike joy gotten in playing. I really doubt e,g., that soccer players would do what they do unless it was fun.
    Women have been taught to just sit around to clean house and have babies, so it’s uncertain to me how much they like for their own sake athletic activity.
    I say this from personal experience, having taken up running before it was fashionable here, just to relax.

  75. Mary Lynn: One of the things I love about visits to the Good Ol’ US of A is hypocritically indulging myself with the, er. cornucopia of fast food outlets there. We really only have McDonalds and KFC here in the UK, which makes it much easier to be sniffy about fast food. Oh, and doner kebabs, which no one eats before midnight. But after a few days of exposure to all those US highway signs promising ‘all you can eat buffets’ and ‘deals of the week’, and listening to those religiously ecstatic fast food ads on the car radio, I usually find most of my time in the US is spent wondering if it’s too soon to eat again.

  76. Hmmmm . . . something I can really sink my teeth into to. I’m wiping away the Burger King grease as I type this. . . AND, this week I went VEGAN!!! Seriously. I’ve learned that Vegan is totally overrated, and I might as well hit the drive thru. I’m a GIRL, so I can’t really speak to the manly meals American Fast Food pushes, but there is nothing like the cheap, yummy glop that I can order off the dollar menu. God Bless America.

  77. Another pointless debate, i have been vegetarian for many years, reason not health, eating animals is wrong, the choice to eat them, i find disgusting, we know better and don’t need to which makes it all the worse, i think that this attitude that you should take the view/saying, healthy body image is unhealthy, basically being fat is ok, no it isn’t, take responsibility for yourself, i always did, from working age i got very active jobs and ate to live not live to eat, being aware that trim athletic body is most attractive for sex, food is not to enjoy, it’s fuel, i do force myself not to give in, countless say how do you do it, are you not hungry, yes fucking starving it’s not easy,i take responsibility for myself, fat is not good, it’s not healthy nor sexy, again if you want to feel good get more sex, stop eating. nothing is easy, if your fat and whinge about it, fuck off, stop eating get off your fat arse and do something about it.

  78. Uroskin: That’s certainly funnier, and less hysterically macho. But perhaps the most noteworthy thing about it is both the ‘blokes’ in it eating the carbs and fat loaded candy bar have zero subcutaneous fat.

  79. Interestingly, where I live in the U.S., and pretty much throughout the country, vegetarianism and more specifically, “organic” food, is available at a very high price. By and large, the people who go to these groceries are from the higher income class, usually because only they can afford it.While this is a departure from their earlier organic vegetarian regime, they now have counters of “organically” or “grass feed” beef-and even grass feed bones to give your dog! The main course of any meal has to be that big chunk of meat.

    It is not hard to not be a glutton. I really don’t understand how people manage to all get so obese: It must be either advertising or the belief that fat is a protection against the vile spirit of the times, or perhaps a nuclear strike.

  80. Curiously, I just landed here from a page in Facebook(America) where numerous guys were worshipfully assessing the adorable features of a very chunky (as in blubber laden), hairy and bearded man(possibly)who was called a “Rough God”. I had the vaque sense that he might have lifted weights as some areas of his physiognamy, other than his gut had some larger proportion. But undoubteddly , one would have to palpate deeply to discover real hard muscles. He was defintely a victim of Big Macs etc.
    As far as being, “blue collar”, hardly anyone in America knows what physical labor is, since Clinton sold out U.S labor, we don’t make anything anymore.
    The result is, just overweight. The hair is apparently just a fetish-the only signficant thing separating them from their mothers. I don’t know if they do body hair implants-could be.

    The fact that cities with active gay sex lives are bottom on the list just indicates that sexual attractiveness-needs to lead to something.
    Like sex, extreme bearishness seems to be mainly an ego fortifying devise just for the many who are overweight. It’s a kind of pathetic attempt to make everyone feel premium, it seems, by a sort of propaganda since if they don’t want to watch what they eat and exercise to a healthy modicum. Advertising is easier!

  81. Vegetarians have in the last 5 years become an much mocked way of life. People have been brain washed into over consuming meat. The overweight chiefs on televisions cater from the meat eaters, even the chief who owns a veggie restaurant in Manchester, Simon Rimmer is derogatory about them on his cookery show. I shudder at what american must think about the V diet, Their greatest olympian Carl Lewis was a vegan when he won all those gold medals, The greates body, Bruce Lee, veggie, The greatest brain, Einstein, veggie. I could go on. Health is now secondary to image. Ethics…….don’t exist.

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